Links and replies

Links To Other "Daniel and Revelation" Sites
Front page: Daniel and Revelation (with website search function)
You may email the author, and learn more about him here


Some sites providing primary evidence:
- For translations of the Bible (NIV, NASB, KJV, NKJV, YLT & Darby), with awesome search devices: Bible Gateway
- For the KJV (and LXX) and the underlaying Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek, with outstanding tools (including many other English translations): Blue Letter Bible
- For another handy tool to check these English translations: The Greek Online Bible
- For an excellent modern translation, with notes: The NET Bible
- For writings by Christians or about them, up to the early 3rd century: Early Christian Writings
- For writings by ancient Jews: Early Jewish Writings
- For the writings of notable ancient Christians, including Eusebius: Fathers of the Church
- For the works of the late 1st century great Jewish historian: Josephus Flavius


http://virtualreligion.net/vri/nt3.html#Apocalypse
This site is hosted by dear professor and scholar Malhon H.Smith, a member of the Jesus Seminar. It provides access to other sites about Revelation


http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/revelation.html
Excellent entry point for various studies and interpretations of the book. A site by Peter Kirby


http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/daniel.html
Excellent entry point for various studies and interpretations of the book. Another site by Peter Kirby


http://www.abhota.info/
The many predictions of apocalypse from the earliest antiquity up to our times!


http://jimmoyers.com/spirituality/sdaapocalyptic.html
An excellent site about the history of apocalyptic movements from ancient Israel to the Millerite Movement in the 19th century


Readers' Comments

One of the reward of having a web page is getting e-mail messages. So, I decided to share some of them with you. Respecting the confidentiality, I removed the name of my dear e-mailers.


1
Your web page is very informative! The reading of Revelation without the Christian additions is suddenly very clear. My dad and I are very excited by your research and you have confirmed a lot of what we have tho't before. This has also opened up new lines of inquiry. Can you, perhaps, recommend any Jewish books on the subject of apocalyptic literature? We'd like to know something of your qualifications: education, religious background etc. (It's always a help to know the background of a researcher). Just so you know: My father is a born again Christian (yet holds somewhat unorthodox views), while I am an agnostic/atheist.(Yes we have some wonderfully colorful discussions!)
Thanks again for the info! We hope to hear from you soon!


2
Daniel and Revelation
Really enjoyed reading your material. My free time I spend checking around and reading different pages of religion and etc. Do you have any others you recommend? Thank you again, for the clear scholarly presentation. So many times I truthfully have no idea what the authors are attempting to say. My humbly opinion being "they" use words that they themselves understand to be quoted as if.... From the tower or perhaps from God or at least a demigod. The goal of educating not only clergy but all who may seek wisdom.... You are accomplishing on your Internet pages.
Rev. ... ...
Pastor ... ... ...


3
Hi, Just a couple random comments about your Daniel/Revelation site. (I haven't read it all, but have skimmed through good chunks of it ...)
I think ALSO that you have the makings of a scholarly site (along with what someone else quoted said). But here's what I would do if I were you: get rid of the snide remarks concerning the texts and treat them in a respectful way, like someone working with history-of-religions/comparative religions would. This revision needs especially to be done in your treatment of Revelation, IMO. The lighthearted comments (such as "the world has four corners!") are too much. And in the title of your Daniel page, "debunking" might not be the greatest word, since you're more EXPLAINING an alternative interpretation of the text; if you're "debunking" anything it's the prevalent conservative interpretation(s). (BTW, I didn't look up "debunking" in the dictionary, so maybe there are other meanings that I'm not accounting for.)
Overall, this is a site that has a very interesting subject and lots of potential.


4
Bernard,
your article does contain some pretty compelling arguments. I don't want to veer too far off topic, but I would like to pose a few short questions:
1.) How do you know that the start date for the prophecy, if you will, is better associated with the decree of Darius than with the decree of Artaxerxes?
2.) What is your source for the later career and death of Antiochus IV? Are there more than one?
3.) How reliable is this source? I assume that you would not classify it as divinely inspired, but is the author generally regarded as accurate or sloppy?


5
Hi Bernard,
I've just been reading your excellent site, particularly your piece on Daniel, which explains the "prophecies" most clearly. It is very well argued. Just a few comments:
(1) it would be nice to see more referencing of your sources. For example, where did you get the list of the 10 kings (for the 10 horns)?
I have understood that these have been difficult to identify. It seems that you have relied heavily on Josephus - perhaps you could quote the section numbers.
(2) The format is a little difficult to read. Perhaps you could BOLD the verses, or use a greater range of colors - I tend to get confused!
(3) I too am amazed that no-one seems to have stumbled onto your explanation for the 70 sevens before - well done! I find this idea quite fascinating, although I still have some questions:
(a) The division of the 69 sevens into two groups, of 7 and 62, is not explained. I think one has to come up with a reason for this before fully accepting your scheme. Of course, it could be that the reason is quite minor and has been lost in the mists of time, but I think that this would be a desperate conclusion to have to make.
(b) The usual explanation - that the 7 and 62 weeks both start from the decree mentioned in Jeremiah 29 and each end with an "anointed one" (Cyrus and Onias) - seems to work quite well, even though one must assume that the writer made a slight error of a few years in his calculation. See:
http://www.primenet.com/~heuvelc/bible/comment/daniel.htm#8-4
Having said that, I think that your system competes very well and it may well be "the answer"!


6
Subject: A refreshing approach
Dear Bernard
Your intellectual honesty is striking. A quality that is rare nowadays. Most of the time writers have a conclusion in mind and argue their way to lead the reader to see things the way they do. It is refreshing to come across your site and I can learn a lot from your free of prejudice approach.


7
Subject: Thanks
Just wanted to thank you for your work. I've been trying to make sense of Revelation for years and never did know where to start. You have single handedly cleared it up for me. Fascinating research. I bet you get a lot of 'hate mail'. O-L, that's our burden in life.


8
Dear Dr. Muller:
I have just skim-read through much of your writings on Daniel and Revelation. HURRAH!! Plus you made me able to LAUGH about it! I was in a Christian communal ministry that I lived in for 7-1/2 years (that's 3-1/2 years plus 4, woops). Our cult leader was totally into these two books. Once we got past the bronze belly, there was the Roman Empire, then an end-times resurgence. I forgot all the stuff they came up with. I do remember the bar codes and bank cards were the "mark of the beast". Of course Jesus was returning "as a thief in the night" to rapture out the Christians any second, and the date kept "moving" when they were wrong. We were forced to listen to weekly bible studies by our leader, a very short many with buggy eyes and a large head and a speech impediment who enjoyed us all trembling when he walked into a room and who compared himself to Moses and boasted frequently of his being an "explosive experts in the war". Thank heavens we didn't have a perceived "invasion" to where he popped his cork and blew us all up! (like an invasion of bar codes).
Your comments are HILARIOUS and things I never noticed, like the 12 wrong names of the tribes of Israel and the grass that was burnt up and then protected by the angel (maybe it rained!) and the stars falling to earth because of earthquakes. Historical information has really helped me be free of bible fundamentalism and the very un-Christ-like way "Christians" were acting around me. To find out all that stuff happened centuries ago is wonderful.
Well, recently, the church where all that stuff originated, most of the former members of our ministry returned to, declared its belief in Calvinism or "predestination", which in the most insane belief system I have ever read, not worth explaining. What I think is hilarious is us females were not allowed to speak at all in a mixed group with men present. Men had biblical and absolute authority from God, and according to the Adam and Eve story, the "woman was deceived." Well, just look at what grand stuff their male egos have come up with! Ha-ha-ha! I am GONNA have the last laugh, after they kicked me out for "not doing enough" and "not smiling enough", mortal sins if I ever heard one. To this day, I am sure I am on their backslidden heathen list.

Bernard:
... I was thinking of how many hours we were forced to sit and listen to the c*** about Daniel and Revelation from our leader, and it comes out to a grand total of every day for NINE MONTHS. I am, of course, referring to the futurist damnation/great tribulation, antichrist any second now stuff. Obviously, I refuse to read or listen to anybody else since then "prophesying" the future. It makes sense the real Daniel didn't do that, because I have a certain amount of that gift myself, and nobody knows the future with rare exceptions, sometimes when people had NDE's (near-death experiences), a couple came back with some predictions that happened.
Reading your site was so helpful and positive/constructive. You put a LOT more hours and research into it than our former leader did! Those guys make it sound like the "antichrist" is their uncle or something and we'll all get embedded with "666". Thanks for unraveling this stuff.


9
Dr.Muller,
I find your writings very informative,
May GOD keep you, and Bless You.


10
Hi Bernard,
Thanks for the answer. The question was asked because of it being told in a church I used to attend. I wanted to hear from someone with facts and also a better knowledge of the bible.
Anyway, great work, keep it up. I love your site.


11
I like your website. I don't know what reviewer number 3's problem is. Your "snide remarks" and "lighthearted comments" are great. Personally, I don't think any of the texts of the Bible deserve much respect. They're just collections of 3rd rate mythology and mountebankery (to use one of H. L. Mencken's favorite words).


12
Bernard,
I visited your website and found it quite thorough and informative, ... [a misunderstanding which was clarified later] ...
I thought that your comments at your site regarding the beginning of Christianity, proto-Christianity, and the later date for Acts, and its problems of continuity with 'Luke' and 'Luke's' discontinuity with the rest of the Gospels to be accurate observations that have been made by many scholars. Excellent stuff.
I also applaud your remarks concerning Revelation and the book of Daniel, and, your comments concerning the nearness of the final judgment of all mankind and its connection in the minds of Gospel writers with the destruction of Jerusalem. Some excellent points made on all of those topics.
I realize English is not your native tongue, but I do hope someone sometime will re-edit your articles or utilize them in their own work, since they contain some excellent observations.
Best wishes,